Also voting Republican

I'm still trying to figure how how the rich screwed you personally.

Did Ralph send you a bill for the 3 million dollars?

Seeing how that was a City of RH thing, if you don't live in the city, it doesn't impact you. If you do live in the city, do you think your taxes would go down if they didn't spend that money? That 3 million is probably being funded a diffeent way than operating revenue, so it's not impacting you. Besides, does it matter to you the Normans are spending over $150 million on this project? That they are creating construction jobs then other jobs once the site is built up. All of those things which go to providing a tax base. And by-the-way, that decision was done by our DEMOCRATICALLY-controlled City Council - if you're looking for someone to blame.

How did Ralph using his influence to help determine how the area around the property he spent millions developing affect you again? Would you deny him the voice in how money was going to spent that would affect his investment?

I live in a neighborhood where there are many affluent and influential people (I am obviously a fish out of water here). We've has our roads paved once in 20 years. Can't pave the world at the same time, my friend. Again, how are you personally screwed by a rich person in this case?

You don't get any tax breaks? Did you property taxes go down this year? Do you have any pre-tax deductions coming out of your paycheck? Again, how does one person's tax break screw you? I have 4 kids at home. I get 1000/child tax credit. Am I screwing you, too?

You want unions? I've worked with enough companies whose union workers were being screwed by their unions it wasn't funny. They'd been better paid and had better benefits without the union because competition would have made it so. Again, how does that screw you? You don't feel that you're getting a fair wage for your service? Then seek employment elsewhere. You have that right.

Do you feel that you were drafted because some rich kid somewhere refused to go? Were you like the last person drafted or something? Again, how did some rich person screw you? If anyone, it was LBJ (a democrat) that screwed you.

You exemplify the liberal victim mentality and it is understandable why you support Obama. He's going to stick it to the oil companies and rich folk that aren't paying their share. Never mind they pay the overwhelming majority of taxes personally PLUS provide the jobs for the rest of us. Let's stick it to them. We're the victims. Give me what I am due.

What a crock.

Do you feel the poor screw you as well? We sure spend a lot of money on welfare and a lot of that is abused. Do you receive any money or benefits stemming from your military service? Do you feel the old is screwing you because of social security?

Be a victim if you want. That only leads down the path of bitterness and anger (sounds like you're there).

Benny,
You say the Bible is full of contradicitons. I say it is not. That's a difference of opinion. However, my opinion is backed up by a couple thousand years of proof and evidence. Yours is attributed to your feelings and evidence that you have not seen. (show me a contradiction if you can)

Actually, the new testament directly corresponds with the old testament; one side supports the other. Could it be that you are not reading the text entirely? I admit that the old English versions can be a pretty hard read -- and a lot of folks have gotten bored and/or disheartened trying to do so.

Failing to understand the written words has caused people through the ages to misinterpret and use the Bible as they wished. There is no denying that. That's why the Inquisition and other atrocities were so easy to perpetrate upon the masses. But....along came Martin Luther who said "Ah-ha, we have not been provided with the truth." A lot of people then were saying that certain things were in the Bible that were not -- and they were omitting some very important parts that mattered.

Also, when the Bible was translated from the original Greek, Hebrew, and other languages -- there were some words that simply had no exact correlation. So, there are a few words that were not properly translated. Even so, enough discoveries have been made over the past few decades to indicate and "prove" that the basic wording is unchanged and that the message and meaning are the same. I have taken some wonderful classes on the Greek and Hebrew translations in which I learned where the "mistakes" in Biblical translation exist. But, the mistakes were caused by men who simply could not attribute a particular German or English word to the Greek and Hebrew text as it was originally written. There are commentaries included in some Bibles that show you the origianl text, so that you can compare the words -- and know what the writers intended.

There are too many historical accounts of Jesus as a man on this earth not to believe that he existed. Whether or not people choose to believe that He was or is the Son of God is another issue altogether. You can not doubt that He lived, for there is historical evidence of His existence, just as there is historical evidence of Peter and Paul and others in the Bible -- like Nero, Julius Caesar, Plato and Socrates. However, you CAN doubt the deity of Jesus, because you refuse to believe that He is the Messiah.

To answer your question about where my proof differs -- I assume you mean in reference to ascribing deity to Jesus -- to which I would say: -- He is still alive -- unlike Buddha, Joseph Smith, or Muhammed who have died and have not been resurrected. Rev. Moon?? -- come on now -- that one does not even deserve to be discussed. Greek Mythology is just that -- mythology. Native American beliefs do not conflict with the God of the Bible. The Talmud? -- no problem with that one at all -- or the Torah either for that matter -- they support the Holy Bible.

***Did you see all of my scientific evidence posts?? I know they were rather lengthy, but the reseaerch information is good, especially the copyrighted article that I printed at the end (with permission to print, of course)

I promise you Benny -- there are myriad volumes printed on proof and evidence of the authenticity of the Holy Bible. As a logically thinking person, I can not dispute it, because it just makes sense.

daughter of promise

Wanda,

There are no comtemporary historical writings or any other historical evidence he ever lived. Other than one mention by Josephus and none of the books of the Bible are attributed to the time of his supposed life.

I don't think he is alive now or then. Sorry.

I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18

"... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4

"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5

and on and on......

I'm glad you took classes on translatiions, but were they sponsored by the church? Any chance these guys were wrong?

Believe me Cristian arcgaeologist have looked for historical evidence forever, well 1700 years now since Eleanor (Constantine's mother) started the fun in 300 AD. It has not been found, at least yet.

Wanda believe if you want but you have no scientific proof. Oh the Rev. Moon, I believe in him as much as I do any of the others.

Ok you ended with logic. Why did all powerful, all knowing, all righteous God create evil? Just a Boo Boo! Why did God pick out a chosen people and let milleniums of people go to hell or at least not know that he is was off personally speaking with the Jews? This is logical? God makes everything, but justs talks to a tribe! Really?

Benny

Benny

Moi?????????

Next thing ya know you'll be calling me sarcastic and accusing me of pontification? Who's side you on anyway cause you know, you're either with "us" or a unAmerican traitor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!

and I have no issue with continuing dialog with Wanda. I already apologized for saying she received food stamps but she seems unable to do the same for saying I rode through her neighborhood with swastikas on my car and was posing a physical threat to her.

But I shall, my fellow forum poster, continue on. I consider it my patriotic duty.

Have a good one!

You can not compare a deliberate lie that you posted and ugly names that you called me --- with being asked a question in a joking manner as I did you -- they are not the same thing. Besides, I would think you would know sarcasm when you heard it.

Do I need to cut and paste all of the vicious postings of yours that referred directly to me by name and regurgitate them back to you again...... or can you finally let this issue go once and for all?

BTW: you did not apologize to me .... you simply posted
a retraction in the subject line after I complained to the moderator. Let's get it right for once.

You can not change what happened by trying to rewrite it.

Come on now...
put on your big girl panties and get over it.

Namaste??? indeed

daughter of promise

Wow, must have hit a nerve. I found it very convenient when you complained to Jason Foster and left out all the "bad" words...

As for the rest of this, childish and not worthy of response.

Have a nice day.

Dearest Free Baby,

You posted:

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

While these are great scripture references, they are not the ones that I used to refer to the stars --- spreading forth the earth is not the same as spreading stars in the heavens -- there are two different actions here --- one with land and one with the atmosphere

But Free, consider this, if you will:
There are several statements in the Holy Bible consistent with astronomy. The Bible frequently refers to the great number of stars in the heavens. Here are two examples:

Genesis 22:17
Blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

Jeremiah 33:22
“As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”

Even today, scientists admit that they do not know how many stars there are. Only about 3,000 can be seen with the naked eye. We have seen estimates of 1021 stars—which is a lot of stars. The number of grains of sand on the earth’s seashores is estimated to be 1025. As scientists discover more stars, wouldn’t it be interesting to discover that these two numbers match? I'll bet they will.

The Bible also says that each star is unique:

1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

All stars look alike to the naked eye. Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.

What's unique about it??? Well, we understand that people can perceive some slight difference in color and apparent brightness when looking at stars with the naked eye, but we would not expect a person living in the first century A.D. to claim they differ from one another. How did someone them know to write it, Free?

The Bible also describes the precision of movement in the universe:

Jeremiah 31:35,36
Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):“If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,Then the seed of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”

and my personal favorite again:
The Bible describes the suspension of the Earth in space.

Job 26:7
He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.

Looks like the science of astronomy and the Bible agree.

daughter of promise

And sort of presumptuous if you ask me but then again he does presume he will be president because he is owed it. McCain's attitude is the very same one displayed by politicians of all parties. WE are in charge. Do as I say, not as I do.

I can't wait to hear the old "Obama has no military experience." Which did not matter with the Dubya but seemed to be the main reason so many of them HATED Bill Clinton. All you heard was that W has surrounded himself with people "in the know." Yeah right, not one of them had any military experience and the one they did had to lie to the American People to keep his position and then left, ashamed of himself, I think.

What I am discovering is that casting my pearls amongst swine is no longer productive and there is no way to open a person's mind if they have already decided they know everything.

So true about never changing the minds of those that have closed theirs. But never forget, the readers that might be looking here to decide what they think. You can't let the forces of the past and of darkness to go unchallenged.

Benny

Benny......
I'm not sure what you meant by McCain's pretensions. But, it was Obama who called as if he were the U.S. President.

Perhaps you missed this:
Obama was reported on the morning news as saying:
"We should continue to push for a United Nations Security Council resolution calling for an immediate end to the violence. It's a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia. The UN must stand up for the sovereignty of its members and for peace in the world."

Tim Kaine, the governor of Virginia (who would like to be his vice president) said this about Obama's statement: "The Senator's goal was to be tough and smart, and so when the action happened on Thursday, he immediately called for a ceasefire, condemned the unwarranted use of force by Russia. It was a bad crisis for the world. It required tough words, but also a smart approach to call on the international community to step in -- and I'm very, very happy that the senator's request for a ceasefire has been complied with."

Boy oh Boy! Complied with?? that was not even correct!

How dare BHO call for a cease fire --- as though he already has the job of commander in chief.

The audacity of audacity!!!!!!!

BTW: what was it that McCain said?? I must have missed it.

daughter of promise

Obama and McCain both original made statements calling for a cease-fire. That is fine. making staements to American audiences on their position is common and fair. Yesterday, as I said, McCain called the Georgian President and made the statement that all Americans were firmly behind Georgia. That is wrong and I will be happy to explain why.

Your repky is completely off on this one. Your man did all the actiona that you fault Obama for and then went over the line for political purpose in a manner that could have endangered America. Poor, poor judgement, that is McCain in a nutshell.

Benny

Benny........not doubting what you say about McCain's call. I have not heard McCain's exact statements yet. I did hear Obama's statements, as he was interviewed on his vacation in Hawaii.....he called for a cease-fire........which seems very pretentious to me........and I heard Governor Kaine's statements about what his hero Obama had said and how he thought that Obama was responsible for a cease-fire (which he wasn't). It appeared that he was eager for an interview. It's clear to see that Gov. Kaine is a "suck up" to Obama.

daughter of promise

Non-existent. McCain, on the other hand, has been involved in the world on an international stage since...1967. Benny wouldn't have any idea what he was doing.
--
Always remember...don't let FACTS get in the way of your argument...

As the title says so what about Jogn MCCain being involved in International Affairs. Experience does not equate with good judgement for example Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld. For another examply John McCain's long list of poor judgement calls. Let's see Bomb, Bomb Iran, send ground troops into Bosnia, still believes we should have stayed in Viet Nam, supported G. Bush on the war to the hilt (did want more troops - but don't need them if you don't make the stupid decision to go there in the first place), and now pretending to be President while a candidate. John McCain has the experience but lacks the temperment and the judgement to be anything more than a good agressive military commander. He is no statesmen and never will be at this old age.

Hey Micahel, dem's de facts! And I do have an idea of the mistake John McCain made today!

Benny

Look again.......not that the sphere was spread........the stars were spread .....

The Bible even describes the suspension of the Earth in space.

Job 26:7
He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.

daughter of promise

It seems to me, that a man of average intellect, in ancient times would surmise that the world was a sphere. Observing the full moon rising and setting, one might conclude that it is a sphere rather than a disc. Likewise with an observation of the sun and stars. A man, on a ship, sailing over the horizon and not reaching the edge would probably think he was sailing on a sphere. Looking at the accomplishments of the people in the ancient times, I conclude that there were many very smart people alive at the time. The priests were some of the smarter ones because they could control the less smart.
Once a person reaches a certain level of consciousness, they realize they will die sometime in the future. In order to make people feel better about their ultimate death and to have a civil society or a civilization for that matter, priests were needed to educate the people on the theory in vogue, regarding the after life. Even though they didn’t know any more than the average person did, they implied that they had Godly wisdom. When several priests got together and started telling the same story, a religion was established. People have a need for an answer as to why they exist. Especially, when they know they will die and want to believe their soul or consciousness will live on. In fact, if so many religions weren’t already established, I would invent one.
Sylvia Brown, the psychic, has recently invented a new religion. It answers many questions and is very appealing to modern man. However, all the so-called facts of the religion are untestable. You have to take her word for how the afterlife is.
In closing, I like every man, hopes there is an afterlife where I can meet all the wonderful souls who have passed on before me.

had amazing knowledge of the local universe, placing the planets in correct orbit and placing the sun at its center thousands of years before Europeans. Their culture was pretty barbaric with human sacrifice and slavery. Their understanding of time as cyclical was so very far advanced that it took modern man 100 years to figure out their calendar.

Interesting stuff and frankly, due to the consciousness of the people around here, I would welcome the shift predicted by the Maya on December 21, 2012. I can dream can't I?

Peace!

you are right about this statement --- I do --- I do -- I do love you!

daughter of promise

You said,
"So potent was religion in persuading to evil deeds".
I much prefer English language.

I would agree with this statement (believe it or not)

Religious people(Pharisees) killed Jesus. Religion itself is just ritualisitic and serves little redeeming value.

BTW -- Roman science, along with Greek philosophy, and other ideology is documented in the Holy Bible........and for people thousands of years ago, long before the days of Magellan or Columbus -- to know that the earth is circular in its appearance is pretty awesome I think. Surely, you are aware of the history included in its pages. It's not exaclty a book of how to's or do's and dont's.

But tell me --
Is there nothing that fear keeps you from doing???
Are you not afraid of anything at all??
Most folks are afraid of something -- otherwise there would be total anarchy. Would you agree with that??

daughter of promise

You said,
"So potent was religion in persuading to evil deeds".
I much prefer English language.

I would agree with this statement (believe it or not)

I'm glad you agree. This means you can see devastation that religion can cause (ex: Crusades, 9-11, Inquisition).

Religious people(Pharisees) killed Jesus. Religion itself is just ritualisitic and serves little redeeming value.

You really have no proof for the existence of jesus other than a book promoted by religion. There are no contemporary accounts of such a person's life.

BTW -- Roman science, along with Greek philosophy, and other ideology is documented in the Holy Bible........and for people thousands of years ago, long before the days of Magellan or Columbus -- to know that the earth is circular in its appearance is pretty awesome I think. Surely, you are aware of the history included in its pages. It's not exaclty a book of how to's or do's and dont's.

You say documented, I say plagiarized. The bible has been written and interpreted throughout the ages.

You just snagged your argument on this particular phrase "to know that the earth is circular in its appearance is pretty awesome I think". You just changed your language with that little trick. Circular in its appearance is not what you stated. You said circle. We know that the earth is a sphere - the Romans knew it prior to 100BC.

Once again, using the Bible as a historical document doesn't fly in my book due to the numerous changes that were made to it. It has been altered too many times.

But tell me --
Is there nothing that fear keeps you from doing???
Are you not afraid of anything at all??
Most folks are afraid of something -- otherwise there would be total anarchy. Would you agree with that??

I will gladly tell you.

Is there nothing that fear keeps you from doing???
Not really. Fear is useless in my opinion. I know my limitations. Fear isn't keeping me from jumping off a building while trying to fly - common sense is.

Are you not afraid of anything at all??
I haven't experienced it all yet, so I can't tell you. I used to think I was afraid of heights, but conquered that by rock climbing. I used to think I was afraid of commitment, then I met my wife. I used to be afraid of death, but then I realized it is just apart of life. It is just part of the whole biological process.
Fear does nothing but keep people in-check, it keeps them docile. I have a friend who thinks that I am insane for doing the things I do. He sits at home, watches TV, and works. What kind of life is that? If you fear everything, you aren't going to experience life - your just going to jump at every bump in the road.

Most folks are afraid of something -- otherwise there would be total anarchy. Would you agree with that??

I agree that people are afraid of things, but I would disagree that there would be total anarchy without it. Look at the American Revolution. If our founding fathers lived in fear, would they have given us this great country we all enjoy? Would we have gone to the moon if we lived in fear? Would man have sailed the oceans?

Now I ask you the same questions wanda... and please think carefully about your response...

"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum."
~ Lucretius, De Rerum Natura

Dear Benny and Free: Wanda will start screaming that you are bashing Christians if you keep insisting that her book is full of holes. Now you and I both know this to be true, just like many religious tracts, but when you argue with Wanda about religion you become HERETICS subject to burning at the stake.

I once attended a past life regression and a man in the audience was asked who he thought he was in a past life as the "psychic" saw someone "famous" (of course). The man looked her in the eye and said, "A Heretic!" The psychic tried to go on but the man jumped up, told the audience: "I have been drawn, quartered, banished, burned, and imprisoned in every single other lifetime as a Heretic!" "I am leaving now because I am still a Heretic."

I was laughing so hard I had to leave too.

My point is this: There is no way to reason with the unreasonable belief that whatever you do, if you are saved by the "Blood of the Lamb" then you are going to heaven. Heck, these fools even have reasons why the "faithful of other religions" will not be going to "heaven" unless they suddenly awaken to the "truth" of Jesus being the only way.

I lived next door to Bob Jones University for 6 years. Let me tell you I have heard more stories about Jesus than I ever thought existed. Jesus in the shower, on the street, in your mind, in your head and butt, you name it. Jesus was EVERYWHERE and always telling the faithful that their actions were "Godly" even when they truly were not (Eric Rudolph is an extreme example). I had a stock answer when they knocked on my door: "The woman up stairs needs Jesus' help, go help her because I don't believe in organized religion." Or the standard "Jesus told me to save myself." I put up with their antics every sunday morning for six years. Usually I ignored them.

The last six months were spent in quiet bliss. Why? Because the woman upstairs got tired of the visits, donned a black sexy nightgown, poured herself a glass of scotch and opened the door with a sexy "come on in boys and meet the girls." It was the last we saw of them. LOL

I guess they could not tolerate their own "unclean" thoughts and we were given up as unsavable. I say, whatever it takes.

You witnessed the juvenile behavior when I confronted her the last time concerning her religion. I got accused of riding through her neighborhood with swastikas on my car because she had no legitimate arguement for her rants.

Nothing has changed nor will it change. She won't even answer my posts now and pretends that she is presenting some type of intelligent discussion by debating religion with you. LOL

Good luck Wanda cause you sure are going to need it.

Me, I will continue to comment where and when I want and LAUGH loudly and continuously at the same old, same old arguement of the bible tells me so.

Hey wanda, want to talk about Lillith?

I do not scream anything.......I do not rant.........and I'm not the one who seems to be upset here. It's not my job to label anyone as anything, and it is certainly not my job to cast judgment upon anyone for their behaviors, beliefs, or lack thereof. I have not and I will not.

While you guys have treated me with dignity and respect, thus far, although strongly disagreeing with my beliefs, not everyone in this forum has done so. For that reason, I have elected not to correspond with that particular individial directly. It has previously caused problems and was escalating to a dangerous level, which is why I requested that the moderator intervene.

Criticism and intelligent conversation I can appreciate -- even if it overflows with sarcasm. I like a challenge and a good debate --- I like humor --- and I like sarcasm, too. However, name calling is juvenile -- and those rantings do not even deserve a direct reply.

I must say that I do find it rather amusing that so many seem to put stock in the musings of a person who admits that she attended a "past life regression" with a psychic, but you find the thought of my belief in GOD as the creator so laughable. Interesting.

BTW: one can not save him self or her self

daughter of promise

so stop trying to make yourself "look" reasonable.

Your comment:
"While you guys have treated me with dignity and respect, thus far, although strongly disagreeing with my beliefs, not everyone in this forum has done so. For that reason, I have elected not to correspond with that particular individial directly. It has previously caused problems and was escalating to a dangerous level, which is why I requested that the moderator intervene."

Is packed full of lies. NEVER did I ever threaten you. In your mind you came up with some insane idea that I had threatened bodily harm to you or posed some type of threat. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Then you go on with another lie that it was escalating to a dangerous level. Why? Because I had comebacks for your ATTACKS? Then you add yet another lie by stating that it was YOU who demanded an intervention.

LIE again! I asked that civility be restored and threatened to go to the police if YOU kept on with the insanity that I had somehow threatened you or was "bashing" you and all other christians.

Free and Benny have said the very same things I have said but you have a problem with me because I too claim a relationship with God and you just can't get your head around it.

Amusing, no I find YOU dangerous and once again show me where I ever threatened you. Can't because it never happened anywhere but in your mind.

Benny and Free, hope you guys don't feel like you are in the middle...ok it is a stretch that you would feel that way but just in case...

I NEVER said I found your belief in God as the creator so laughable...again you injecting your beliefs into my comments which Benny has rightfully accused you of several time. You go ahead and keep debating Free...you will find out soon enough that you are not equiped intellectually or otherwise to debate him but I do enjoy the results.

BTW YES YOU CAN! By your own good works you shall be known, remember?

Can't stand it when Christians don't remember the good parts of the bible.

Now off to complain about you AGAIN.

Dear Miss Enlighten,

I know I said that I was not going to address you any more. But, I would like to finally put this silliness to rest -- and for the last time.

You have jumped to many conclusions without merit. You incorrectly assumed that a post sent to someone else was entirely about you, when only a portion of it pertained to you. How vain.

I respectfully ask that you do not directly correspond with me or target me by name again -- I do not wish to engage in any more discussions with you because you have not been civil toward me. Again, this is escalating to an uncomfortable level -- needlessly.

For the record, I did request the intervention of the moderator first.........the postings can be verified -- they are dated and timed.

Also, it was I who first advised you that I would contact legal authorities if necessary -- after you had singled out and belittled my race, my vehicle, and my job. If you meant no ill will, you certainly have not exemplified it.

Sincerely, Wanda Fincher

daughter of promise

ok, truce but have to state that I was the one who started the civil discourse post and that you did indeed accuse me of belittling your race, vehicle, and job. Why? Because I guess (correctly I suppose) that you are a white woman who drives and SUV. The job stuff you posted in an answer to Benny.

At this point Wanda, you have accused me of so many things I can hardly keep track. But after much prayer and meditation I have come to the following conclusions:

I am being unfair to use your religious belief system against you. You have every right to believe what you want to believe and it is not up to me to set your straight, even though you believe it is your right to continuously testify and save the unbelievers, I know it is not my job so I shall leave you to that.

I will continue to pray that God's love enter you and show you the beauty and wonder of this Earth and beyond. All that there is is not all that you can see. I have respect for your faith but have never been a follower of any religion. AGain, I will leave the religion to you.

I will continue to pray that you understand that I never posed any threat to you in any way, shape, or form. Any Ill will, as you put it, came from your own perceptions and not from anything I set forth from intent and action.

If you felt belittled then you are going to have to deal with the fact that it is what YOU read into the statements and own up to the fact that you were throwing out insults like candy at a parade. Like I said before, I know I can be sarcastic and caustic verbally and will not hesitate to throw the ball back at you or anyone else. I can hold my own, no doubt, in that department.

And lastly, I am dedicated to serving God by being an example of peace, unconditional love, and faith. This service I take on not because I am bound by book or man, but because it is why I am here, on Earth, to serve.

You can take issue with my politics, my house, my car, my whatever but what you cannot take from me is my deep and abiding love for God and for the Earth. Without the Earth we would not be here. All we are, we owe Her.

Namaste,

Enlighten

You wrote: "truce but have to state that I was the one who started the civil discourse post and that you did indeed accuse me of belittling your race, vehicle, and job".

okay ---
you started the civil discourse post -- somtime after I had already asked the moderator to intervene

and yes.....
I accused you of belittling me --- because you did.

I, too, will stand up for myself.

I have no problems with having differences with anyone. Sarcasm and caustic snips do not threaten me.

But, please, please tell me --- at whom did I throw any lnsults? Please go back and copy and paste any insults that I have hurled toward you or anyone else in this forum.

What I have said about political candidates is fair game, I think, and you should not take those personally. It seems to me that you may have confused my posts with another -- as in the welfare and food stamp references you made earlier.

BTW: I do not think that I can "save" anyone -- I am not the Messiah. What I have done is share why I believe what I do in a clear and rational manner.

daughter of promise

Whee, I am off tyoday so can play around a bit!

Now Wanda, I did not, nor would I, call your belief laughable. Anything believed my so many people and the cause of so much of their actions is not laughable. I do not chose to believe it myself, but I don't laugh at it. Frankly, religion scares me. It, or the abuse of it at any rate, has been the cause of many wars and cruelties beyond imagining.

So, I will ne happy to discuss it, but I won't be laughing at you. OK?

Benny

Thank you for your reply.......it's an acceptable answer and one I can appreciate. We do not have to always agree to get along in this world. People have differences and they will always have their own opinions. I'm glad we're not all alike, for it would be quite boring, wouldn't it?? and then who would we argue with??????????

daughter of promise

When I was at USC after a long night pf partying in our dorm on the Horseshoe on a Saturday night. A group from Bob Jones on Mission work to save us heathens burst into the room (well walked right in as the door was open) breaking into songs and offering to save us. My roomate, who was a big guy that had been on the footbakll team till uinng a knee, got up and physically help one of them out of the second floor window while calmly telling the others they needed to go catch him. They never came back either!

Benny

Oh never mind, the humor of the situation will surely be lost on the more righteous amongst us.

Dear Jesus, save me from your followers.

Hey, saw a good bumper sticker today:

"I found Jesus, he was hiding behind the sofa."

LOL
have a good day off

Am I detecting a message that you want me to just "go away" and never come back?? What would that mean exactly? I mean as far as being "open" to hearing ALL the evidence; I thought you enjoyed challenging dialogue.

but to the point.......
I assume you are referring to Bob Jones University --- since I've never been there and do not know anyone who has been there, I have no real frame of reference for how they may do what they do. It sounds like their approach was not the correct one to take for the particular situation. For one thing, no one should be so foolish as to think that they can witness to anyone who has been partying all night (and I assume drinking to the point of drunkeness). People in that frame of mind are definitely not receptive to any knowledge of any sort -- especially the kind that may say to them that what they have been doing is wrong.

Benny, I too, remember well in school -- turning away those that I thought were just the goody-goody "Bible thumpers" -- Try as they might, they weren't going to get me!!!

I had some false perception that these kids -- the Jesus freaks -- were some how missing out on all the fun -- and that they were being taken in and brainwashed by some "religious right" --- I thought how could they be so gullible --- and what I later learned was that it was actually I who had been gullible --- I had been taken in and brainwahsed -- by my culture and by my belief system that had been built upon what I thought had been proven to be true -- but in fact had not --

Because I could not fathom what I could not see, I did not want to believe. Then, I began to study --- not just the Bible -- but many, many, many books that support its authenticity. I wanted to know the truth and I sought out to disprove that the Bible's words are true and that GOD does not exist -- but I could not prove either. Instead, the reverse was proven to me.

There is nothing in the Bible that conflicts with scientific fact. Want proof???

daughter of promise

Wanda, faith is just that. You will never convince me by example. You seem to forget that I do know the book. Unlike you, I spent my youth anxious to believe. I read and re-read. Life, experience and rational thinking tells me in every way that it is myth.

I don't weant you to go away. I was simply discussing an incident re: Bob Jones with Enlighten.

Enjoy your beliefs. I am not trying to change them. I'll explain why I believe as i do. As long as believers do not try to get me killed for their religion I will be just fine with them believing anything they wish.

Benny

I don't mind your explanations at all............

I enjoy the discussion.......and I promise not to try to get you killed. :-)

daughter of promise

Only read the books that SUPPORT your belief system.

Way to go. Can't believe we are contemporaries.

They deserve to be ridiculed!! Talk about rude!

"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum."
~ Lucretius, De Rerum Natura